Step 1 Cut off - Need your info

Geeze, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I was just trying to get some more info based on what some people told me. I wasn't trying to rub anything in anybody's face. Just exploring different fields like all MS3s do. I don't think there's anything wrong with switching fields from family to ortho early in 4th year if you feel strongly about. And in regards to "TibulaDoc"s comment, I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to winter break after a working hard during third year.

I can't say that I totally agree to the perceived double standard that my friends describe. And we don't even know if it actually exists, or if these people even match after interviews. But I'm at least going to explore my chances of getting into ortho. OK, I'm not going to say anymore about this. This thread will be very useful for future applicants like me. I wish I new actual numbers so I can contribute, but right now I'm only a leech.

If you didn't mean to hijack the thread or start a heated debate, why did you even state your original post. Basically, you said friends told you to explore ortho, and you were interested because you were a cheerleader and you heard some programs favor female applications. You even mention that MAYBE you will do an elective...If you were a hard working die hard bleed ortho from day 1, wouldn't you be a little ticked off to have someone come on a board and say that? Seriously, as a third year medical student you should have learned how to communicate effectively with patients, colleagues, residents and attendings...that post obviously shows that you don't. There are people in medical school (and I have met them) that really don't have a solid reason for going into ortho other than its so competitive, and I want to go after a competitive spot, or some other half arse reason like that. Your post seems to reiterrate similar sentiments.

As for the whole board score argument, I talked to my PD before the 4th year. He told me that 210 is more of a common point than 220 or even 230. He says some of the competitive programs may use higher scores, but that alot of the PDs he knows use 210...thats just for what its worth.

Going on further with board scores, ladies and genlteman, this is the game we play. Its a numbers game, and with 200-300 applications, they can't read them all, they need something to quickly sort them. Thats all, once you get passed that and get your foot in the door...ITS MUCH MORE THAN BOARD SCORES...but you have to get your foot in the door. For those MS3s or younger reading this, if you don't have those scores, or feel you may not be competitive, DON'T BACK DOWN, if ortho is truly what you want, go for it, I know that I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I didn't at least give it the ole college try. There are other ways to get interviews, i.e. away rotations, that don't require the 230+ board scores...at the end of the day, no matter how many interviews you have, it only takes 1, ala the NFL draft, to take a chance on you and let you in....

I don't think there's anything wrong with switching fields from family to ortho early in 4th year if you feel strongly about. And in regards to "TibulaDoc"s comment, I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to winter break after a working hard during third year.

As for switching from family med to ortho in 4th year...hmmm, thats a head scratcher. Yeah, I do have a little bit of a problem with that. First, this is 3-5 years of your life, to flip flop so easily shows that during the first 3 years you took very little interest in this, and its not a decision that should taken half heartidly. Seriously, I've seen this many a times where people flip flop, end up in that specialty, then match out of it again after internship year. This is five years of your life, it should be taken seriously, and I don't think rash decisions should be made over a one month elective in a certain specialty.
Secondly, look at the difference in lifestyles between the two. If you were interested in surgery, why not G-surg, or ENT, or Neuro, or anything like that, why family med? You do know that the only residencies really having problems comforming to the 80 hour work week are the surgical ones. From my experience most people interested in family med hated their surgery rotation, hated the lifestyle, and hated the attitude...for me I was a surgery junky, I loved being in the OR REGUARDLESS of what it was....and you get a chance to experience this in 3rd year.
Thirdly, we're talking about 4th year here...if you are unsure at that point which specialty you want, maybe you should think about preliming. The other poster mentioned she made her decision during 3rd year, which is where you get your surgical experience, where you get to explore your personality and what fits you well in medicine. If your interested in ortho, EXPLORE IT THEN, why wait later(especially 4th year, which is last minute)??? Go to the lectures, grand rounds, spend your free time in ortho clinic/OR, research ortho...this is the looking into things during the first 3 years I talked about. Yes, I know some private docs in surgical specialties who decided late, however, this was in an era before the match, and they had a chance to explore surgery in there internship before committing to a specialty. Its a much different boat. Nothing is wrong with a prelim year, if your unsure, just do it, in the grand scheme of things 1 year is a small small portion of your professional career
I can say one thing that sums it up. There was a student I rotated with who was b/t Plastics and ortho, 2 at least surgically related specialties...you know what one of the residents said to him "Oh, so you aren't really seriousl about ortho then?" It doesn't matter what I think, it doesn't matter what you thin, it matters what the powers that be think, and that kind of sums up alot of the attitudes I've encountered. If you want it, you better be dead serious about it, not some passing fancy in your 4th year to PC....

I personally think the above comments made by VTMD07 are rude and condescending. I thought this forum was for encouraging one another and helping people along in this process. The above posts are what makes me not want to visit this forum very often.

Wow, you guys really need to chill. First, I was being sarcastic about the cheerleading part; you know, kinda playing into the stereotype that orthodocs like athletic people. Second, I'm just a third year student who hasn't even had surgery. Just because I have zero surgery/ortho experience right now (which is probably half of all third years at this point of the year) doesn't mean I can't explore ortho as an option. Third, there are some med schools that don't even have the option of doing ortho before 4th year. So you say go to grand rounds/clinic/research/OR. I call BS on that one. How many students fall inlove with clinical ortho based on grand rounds/clinic/research? I can understand wanting to do ortho based on shadowing in the OR, but I think a better way to make sure is to do an actual rotation. Overall, just becuase you somehow "knew" you wanted to do ortho before doing an actual ortho rotation doesn't give you the right to chastise someone for starting to explore the field by asking questions. Get over yourselves.

I personally think the above comments made by VTMD07 are rude and condescending. I thought this forum was for encouraging one another and helping people along in this process. The above posts are what makes me not want to visit this forum very often.

LMAO..if you think those are rude and condescending, oh boy. Sorry that I don't want to blow smoke up everyone's arse, and tell it how I see it. Once again, I told you a conversation verbatum that a resident told a student, and those are the opinions that matter. If you think any type of surgery is some lovey dovey type field, your in for a rude awakening...

Wow, you guys really need to chill. First, I was being sarcastic about the cheerleading part; you know, kinda playing into the stereotype that orthodocs like athletic people. Second, I'm just a third year student who hasn't even had surgery. Just because I have zero surgery/ortho experience right now (which is probably half of all third years at this point of the year) doesn't mean I can't explore ortho as an option. Third, there are some med schools that don't even have the option of doing ortho before 4th year. So you say go to grand rounds/clinic/research/OR. I call BS on that one. How many students fall inlove with clinical ortho based on grand rounds/clinic/research? I can understand wanting to do ortho based on shadowing in the OR, but I think a better way to make sure is to do an actual rotation. Overall, just becuase you somehow "knew" you wanted to do ortho before doing an actual ortho rotation doesn't give you the right to chastise someone for starting to explore the field by asking questions. Get over yourselves.

Once again if your seriously interested in ortho, why wait til 4th year to be involved in it? And if you think I'm just asking this question to be a jerk, what do you think they will say to you on the interview? And do you think that saying well spending my free time in ortho grand rounds/clinic/research/OR wouldn't really show me anything about the field, so I was just waiting til I could do a rotation. I really doubt that will fly. Medical school is not oriented to producing orthopods, ortho is a small small fraction of what you learn, and you MAY have to go above and beyond to find out if thats what your interested in(which anything I would commit 5 years of my life to I most obviously would). I'm sorry if taking some of your free time to go spend in ortho isn't what you feel you should do, and you feel that all you need to learn about ortho can be found in a 1 month rotation, b/c your chances with matching with that attitude with your stats are slim to none. And fine, call BS on that stuff, but I didn't know for sure I wanted to do ortho til 3rd year, I had a feeling but I kept myself open. And i spent an extra week over xmas break working in the ortho clinic and OR at my home program to get a better look for me. I too was tired of busting my butt in 3rd year, but I am not going to half arse choose a profession just because I'm too lazy to go that extra lil bit to see if its right for me.

Your original post was so inflammatory, and if you are ignorant to that lord help you. Don't come on a message board for any competitive specialty, say those things, and not expect to get flamed....