Yea my top choice hasn't really changed from the beginning, but everything below that has been cycled through many times. I based all of my programs I rotated at on the location aspect primarily, safety for the family was a big deal.

*nod* top stays the same.. but after that, things get confusing.. the truth is matching is most important, and hedging the bet at whatever program gives you the best offer.. is key. After having done this already, that's the conclusion I've come to. Sure, you can reach for the stars, but matching is the most important thing

After having done this already, that's the conclusion I've come to. Sure, you can reach for the stars, but matching is the most important thing

I knew I shouldn't have turned down that pre-match spot!

cnH.. you did what?? after not having matched the first time.. you're a crackpot? hehe what program was it?

Totally agree Iliiz, the other thing I would throw in there is that if you did well on your away rotations that's going to be your best chance, sure you may like these other programs, but a known entity (that's a hard worker) I would think would get ranked naturally higher. So unless you totally just hated the place, then those programs should be higher on your list.

*nod* top stays the same.. but after that, things get confusing.. the truth is matching is most important, and hedging the bet at whatever program gives you the best offer.. is key. After having done this already, that's the conclusion I've come to. Sure, you can reach for the stars, but matching is the most important thing

According the match algorithm, you should rank in order of your preference. A program making an "offer" is no reason to move them up on your list if they're not one of your top choices.

Totally agree Iliiz, the other thing I would throw in there is that if you did well on your away rotations that's going to be your best chance, sure you may like these other programs, but a known entity (that's a hard worker) I would think would get ranked naturally higher. So unless you totally just hated the place, then those programs should be higher on your list.

You should rank in order of your preference. If you don't get in at one of your top X programs, at least you'll have one of your sub-I programs as a backup (as long as they ranked you well).

cnH.. you did what?? after not having matched the first time.. you're a crackpot? hehe what program was it?

It was a very, very, very hard decision. And depending on what happens in March, the best or worse decision of my life!

Yes, you are 100% correct.. however, there are cases where the following happens. Unfortunately, there is always post-interview communication. Whether or not each party solicits it from eachother is another problem. The fact is, it happens. Candidate has program Y ranked #2 or #3 on their list. Candidate has contact with program Y. Program Y hears that the candidate is going to put them #1 on his/her list (through a phone call from a PD, email from candidate, whatever). Program Y bumps up candidate to a top rank spot. If the candidate had them only 2 or 3 on the list, program Y may have not done that. Of course, the candidate can always lie, but they shouldn't, because it's wrong. Candidate matches at Program Y. I don't know whether this is wrong or right, ethically, but it most certainly happens. I do know that this is OKAY as far as match regulations are concerned. Programs want people who want to go to their program, and vica versa. It's hedging your bet, so to speak.

Second what spiff said. Reach for the stars, the algorithm is in your favor. However, that being said, if you were to spend extra time going on second looks, etc. the time and money would probably be better used on those programs you have a higher chance at to try and secure a spot as best you can.

but a known entity (that's a hard worker) I would think would get ranked naturally higher. So unless you totally just hated the place, then those programs should be higher on your list.

capneedles mention there is the exact reason why people have the belief that doing a rotation is the key into getting into a program. It's not a cause and effect relationship, it's just a correlation. People rank their away rotations higher, and the programs usually rank the students higher. That's how it goes... so people think you need to ace the rotations in order to get into residency, which is not true (although you *should* work your ass off, but that's another story). You should keep in mind that the value of the away rotation is to get your feet wet, get some letters and contacts. If nothing else, it's something to talk about on your interview. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked where I rotated on interviews. I learned my lesson, I don't say anymore. I say oh, I rotated here in the northeast or *insert whatever region you're currently in*. Usually no one asks that. Like for instance, I have been asked 'where else have you interviewed'. I don't list programs anymore, I say "oh, in NY, some in california.. anywhere, since matching is the most important".. that answers the quesiton, and I think in effect eliminates the possibilitiy of them judging you for your choice in rotation. Trust me on that one.

Like for instance, I have been asked 'where else have you interviewed'. I don't list programs anymore, I say "oh, in NY, some in california.. anywhere, since matching is the most important".. that answers the quesiton, and I think in effect eliminates the possibilitiy of them judging you for your choice in rotation. Trust me on that one.

I think that is heavily dependent on the program. Some interviewers are looking for someone who is confident in their decisions and doesn't beat around the bush. If you answered a question the way you suggest they would think you are a wuss and there go your chances. While other interviewers are more political, trying to lead you down a path to say something stupid, even if it is the truth. The trick is figuring out what category they fall into in the fraction of a second while you introduce yourself. Ya, interviewing sucks!

well.. that's a tough call, like you said. If a program asks.. why'd you choose the places you rotated at.. that's a different story.. they want to know what you were thinking. But, if they are simpling asking because they are curious, then I opt for the answer I mentioned above. i would say 9/10 people will judge you based on where you rotate, that's just how it goes. The whole conviction argument is only a small fraction of the time, and I think those people would ask why you rotated as opposed to just 'where'.. that's my opnion at least. and yes, interviewing sucks.. because they're just looking for the smallest negative you can possibly find, even if it isn't a negative.. ugh.. I hate this process.. I can't believe that between these two years I have gone on over 30 interviews, and answered the question 30 * 4, "why orthopaedics" over 120 times.. I don't think I can come up with that many variations.. ugh! haha

Ya, towards the end I felt like I was on auto-pilot. The answers seem to come out without even really thinking about it.

My thinking with aways/SubI's is that as known entity those programs are more likely to put you a little higher on the list if you did well, compared to someone that they just met for a day. However as stated everywhere else, the algorithm does favor the student for sure. I guess I didn't even think about it when people asked where I have interviewed at or where I rotated at, I just told them. For me I didn't have anything to really say, other than I chose all of those places because I thought my family could live there, and that was important to me. Maybe I was just naive during this process, oh well, lets roll the dice!

I spoke to my dean and ortho chair about the match process. Tey explained how the system FAVORS THE APPLICANT. The algorithm is set up to match applicants at the highest possible program. Even if you didn't match at all your top places, but did match at a program you ranked lower, you will get that program. You aren't penalized for ranking a program lower. It also benefits the programs because a program would rather get an applicant they ranked higher, even if the applicant ranked them lower, then to get one they ranked lower and miss out on the higher applicant. Keep in mind, post-interview communication from the programs FAVORS THE PROGRAMS. They are trying to get you to rank them higher, so it increases THEIR chances of a match, not yours. I thought this was very helpful since the whole Match process is so confusing.

I spoke to my dean and ortho chair about the match process. Tey explained how the system FAVORS THE APPLICANT. The algorithm is set up to match applicants at the highest possible program. Even if you didn't match at all your top places, but did match at a program you ranked lower, you will get that program. You aren't penalized for ranking a program lower. It also benefits the programs because a program would rather get an applicant they ranked higher, even if the applicant ranked them lower, then to get one they ranked lower and miss out on the higher applicant. Keep in mind, post-interview communication from the programs FAVORS THE PROGRAMS. They are trying to get you to rank them higher, so it increases THEIR chances of a match, not yours. I thought this was very helpful since the whole Match process is so confusing.

If someone did not know this by now, then they should not be entering the match. This is prelim information that everyone knows. I am shocked that you just found out the way you did.

If someone did not know this by now, then they should not be entering the match. This is prelim information that everyone knows. I am shocked that you just found out the way you did.

Dude you'd be surprised. I had to explain the match to my RESIDENT today, who presumably has gone thru the match once already.

but a known entity (that's a hard worker) I would think would get ranked naturally higher. So unless you totally just hated the place, then those programs should be higher on your list.

capneedles mention there is the exact reason why people have the belief that doing a rotation is the key into getting into a program. It's not a cause and effect relationship, it's just a correlation. People rank their away rotations higher, and the programs usually rank the students higher. That's how it goes... so people think you need to ace the rotations in order to get into residency, which is not true (although you *should* work your ass off, but that's another story). You should keep in mind that the value of the away rotation is to get your feet wet, get some letters and contacts. If nothing else, it's something to talk about on your interview. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked where I rotated on interviews. I learned my lesson, I don't say anymore. I say oh, I rotated here in the northeast or *insert whatever region you're currently in*. Usually no one asks that. Like for instance, I have been asked 'where else have you interviewed'. I don't list programs anymore, I say "oh, in NY, some in california.. anywhere, since matching is the most important".. that answers the quesiton, and I think in effect eliminates the possibilitiy of them judging you for your choice in rotation. Trust me on that one.

It seems however that they would know anyway since your LORs would most likely be from faculty at the programs you rotated at. So once they read them they will know already. But then again, if they are asking you, maybe they didn't read them yet...

After interviewing I am convinced that many interviewers don't read your letters of rec. I got asked about where I did aways all the time, even though some of my letters said I rotated there and it has a huge logo in the upper right hand corner of the page.