neRunner Global user (5/3/00 11:35:12 am) Reply A Few Queries In preparing for the fourth year and application to ortho programs, how can i best guage my competitiveness as an applicant to the field of orthopaedics? I have spoken with my own department briefly, but I am worried that advice from one attending to another varies too much. Does anyone have any general guidelines on REALISTICALLY competitive board scores, grades, et cetera? What kinds of cutoffs were used to get to the interview and how many interviews can one expect versus the number of programs applied to? How important is AOA and what things can "make up" for not being AOA? That is, can high board scores replace AOA status? And what are "average" or "high" board scores when it comes to ortho applicants? How geographically biased are programs? Is it true that some programs, such as those in Cali don't offer many interviews to out-of-staters? Lastly, how important is research? What if I have research experience in another field? Is it still mandatory to do ortho research before I apply? Bob Local user (5/3/00 2:03:44 pm) Reply Re: A Few Queries I would say that realistically competitive board scores would be 230 and above. That's not to say that below 230 you're screwed, just that 230 is a comfortable place to be. High board scores can definetly help, and to a certain extent "replace" AOA status, but you should still be ranked highly in your class. Average board scores (I'm guessing here) 230-240. High board scores 240 and above. Cali is definetly geographically biased. Other programs vary widely though. If you have SOLID research experience, this will definetly help, whether or not it is in Ortho or not. Research in Ortho never hurts, and if your school counts it as an elective toward graduation (as mine did) it is a very easy way to spens a month or two (translation: let's go golfing)! Good luck and keep the questions coming. slk Local user (5/3/00 5:34:12 pm) Reply Re: A Few Queries Bob I have question related to the research thing.. I just finished a project, and wrote a manuscript for it. I gave it to my attending, who may have delusions of grandeur, and he wants to try submitting it to top journals. I've seen/heard that the better the journal, the longer they take to review it (up to 3-4 months). But I'm thinking now I really would just like to get it published SOMEWHERE before my applications/interviews. Do you think it's worth trying to persuade him to step it down a bit, or is it a big difference getting published in a top journal, that it's worth taking the risk and waiting? Bob Local user (5/4/00 11:33:00 am) Reply Re: A Few Queries You know, that's a very tough question. On one of my research projects my attending did the same thing. We submitted it to a top journal, and they reviewed it for a LONG time (more than four months). Well, in the end, they ended up rejecting it and I submitted it to another lesser journal and got it published. Fortunately, it was early in my med school career and it didn't affect me much. I think if I were you (not knowing what year of school you are in) I would submit to the "top journal" if I truly thought I had a chance. Otherwise, I'd go for the "lesser" journal. If the journal is still reviewing it when it comes to interview time, you can always explain that your project is currently being reviewed for publication by Journal X, or whatever. There is a place on ERAS to put research projects that you've worked on, even if they haven't been published. As I've said before on this board, it's not necessarily what the research project is about, it's the quality of the research that counts (although a publication definetly shows that your research has some validity). Hopefully, some other people will give us their thoughts as well! Good luck, whatever you decide. orthochief Unregistered User (5/5/00 12:12:05 pm) Reply research I would never tell an attending where to submit an article. Nobody cares if the article is published by the time of your interview. You still get to put the research on your CV and most importantly-are able to talk about it at your interview. slk Local user (5/6/00 12:45:57 am) Reply Re: research I have heard that everyone who applies has research, and that having something published is what separates a great application from a good one.. no? Bob Local user (5/6/00 7:53:33 pm) Reply Re: research First of all, it is not true that all applicants have research. Secondly, many of those who do worked on some insignificant research that they did in their spare time just to fill an application. Finally, what can set your application apart (with regards to research) is a SIGNIFICANT project that you worked on and know A LOT about when it comes to interview time. ================================