ms3 Unregistered User (4/26/00 9:35:18 pm) Reply AOA I am going to be applying for an ortho residency spot here in a couple of months and I am right on the borderline as to whether or not I get elected to AOA. How important is it to be AOA and how bad will it hurt me if I do not get AOA? Bob Local user (4/27/00 7:00:09 pm) Reply Re: AOA Being AOA is definetly going to help your application. Unfortunately, due to the number of applications received by programs, they are forced to use things like AOA to weed down the applicant pool. However, if you fall just short, DON'T WORRY. AOA is definetly not the only criteria. If you just miss, then you still must have done well in school. And, if you did well on the boards, your still in good shape. Programs really put a lot of emphasis on board scores. Research will also help boost your application if you have some. If you have any other questions (some good programs, interview questions/style, etc.) let me know, I just finished the interview trail and will be starting my internship this July, so it's all still fresh in my mind. BTW, the interview process sucks!! Good Luck! slk Local user (4/27/00 7:53:48 pm) Reply Re: AOA Bob, what are interviews generally like? I've heard bits and pieces, like they're usually about 6 hours or so. Is it a series of interviews with different attendings and a tour? Also, is there a month or day of the week that most programs schedule interviews? Thanks.. Bob Local user (4/28/00 10:07:18 am) Reply Ortho Interviews Ortho interviews a little different than most. Programs usually schedule about two interview dates only, and often they conflict with another program; therefore, you have to make your decision on which interview to go to before you know anything about the program. This is done by design so that only those serious about a program will interview there. Some of the "less desirable" programs are often more flexible and schedule more dates to attract more candidates. Often these programs are very good, but don't have a "big name." Interview season starts in late October with Mayo and Case Western Reserve. Than usually no program interviews in November. Then mid December through the end of January is crazy - so make sure you either take thosae months off or have a very flexible schedule in these months. As for the interviews themselves, every program is different. On average, you will interview with four different people in four different interview- no group interviews. However, this varies greatly. At U of Chicago, you interview with ten (yes 10) different people over 3.5-4 hours. This is very exhausting. At some of the smaller community programs, you may only interview with the chairman. At Northwestern, you interview with about 10 people all at once while you're in the hot seat. So, as you can see, there is great variety. As for the interviews themselves, almost all are very laid back - just relax and be yourself. Typical questions are Why orthopaedics? Tell me about yourself. Where else have you interviewed? What other programs did you like and why? What are you looking for in a program? If you did research, they will ask about that. KNOW YOUR RESEARCH WELL!! I would suggest scheduling a couple of programs early in the interview season that you aren't really interested in so that you can polish your interview skills and learn which questions will be asked. It seems like all interviewers ask the same questions. By the time you're done interviewing, you can spit out your answers before they even ask them! Hope this helps. If you have any other specific questions - fire away!!! ZachO Global user (5/3/00 10:48:26 pm) Reply Interviewing experience.... Bob, What can you tell me about the other Chicago programs, Loyola in particular???? Also did you interview at any programs in New England??? Bob Local user (5/4/00 11:19:58 am) Reply Re: Interviewing experience ZachO If you were to ask most people to rank the Chicago programs they would probably rank them as follows: 1. Rush 2. Northwestern 3. U of Chicago 4. Loyola 5. U of Illinois Chicago Although, some people might swap 1. and 2. Unfortunately, I did not apply to Loyola. On the interview circuit, however, I did meet a few people who did interview there (you will see the same people everywhere you go). The two people who did interview at Loyola really liked the program a lot. I guess it's not in the city itself, and that was one aspect that they liked. But, they did like the program as a whole. I can't give you much more info than that, however. My suggestion is to find out as much as you can by asking around and searching the net. If the program sounds like something you'd like, apply and see what happens. I interviewed mostly in the midwest because that's where I wanted to stay. I did interview at Johns Hopkins, which I did like very much. HSS offered me an interview, but their interview style turned me off, so I declined. Although, I'm told they treat their residents well. I have a friend who matched at Thomas Jefferson. He liked the program a lot during the interview. I know TJ isn't technically New England, but it's out East. If you have specific programs you're interested in, I may have some insight if you name them. ZachO Global user (5/5/00 12:52:28 pm) Reply Specific programs Any info on Brown, UVM, or UConn?????? I've heard Yale's program is excellent in regard to research, but poor in regard to operative experience. Also, where did you end up matching(if you don't mind me asking..... Bob Local user (5/6/00 7:49:10 pm) Reply Re: Specific programs I don't know any specifics, but I did talk to a few people who went to interview at UVM and Brown. The people who went to UVM loved the program. Also, the people who went to Brown seemed to like the program pretty well. I don't know anything about UConn. Sorry, I couldn't be more specific, but like I said, I tended to stay in the Midwest. So, if you plan to interview there at all, I could probably give you more info!! BTW, I ended up matching at the Cleveland Clinic. Unregistered User (5/7/00 6:51:21 am) Reply Obtaining AOA I looking into ortho as a possible career down the road and was wondering if anyone could help me out with the topic of AOA. What is it, how can I find out more about it, how do you get it?? Any info would be greatly appreciated!! Kent Unregistered User (5/7/00 2:54:56 pm) Reply What's AOA... AOA is the national honorary society for medical students. Even though it's national, not every school will have a chapter. You can be elected in your junior year (and this is usually limited to the top 5% or so of the class), but more people are elected in the early senior year (and this is usually limited to about 15% of the total class). At my school, selection was based purely on a numerical score composed of first-year honors grades (my second year was pass/fail), honors in third-year required rotations, and Step I scores. Since it's a national thing (but not all schools have it), it has become an unfortunate screening tool for orthopaedics (along with Step I scores). We had lots of good, hard-working people who were AOA, but it really seemed that the majority of our junior AOA people were notorious for ass-kissing and general sucking-up. Some people mastered the art of doing very little on the third-year required rotations, but making it look and sound like they were super students when the attending was around (these rotations carried lots of weight for AOA selection). My advice? Work hard on EVERY rotation, do your best on every test/boards exam, and do the best job if simply because you're a medical student and that's what you're supposed to do. It's a skill that will take you far regardless of AOA status. Too many people won't lift a finger unless there's some immediate reward for them (like getting into AOA). If you don't make it into AOA, all is not lost concerning orthopaedics. If you've got a strong record and interview well, then it's all about "fit". Many non-AOA people are outstanding orthopaedic residents (and who generally work very hard "just because"). When you get to your third- and fourth-year rotations and residency, you'll encounter some of those supposed junior AOA stars that nobody can stand or wants to work with. Try your hardest to get into AOA (see if you can find out how your particular school elects members), but don't be a sell-out. Bone44 Global user (5/7/00 4:32:43 pm) Reply Thank you!! Kent, Thanks for your reply and info--it is a great help!! CS Local user (5/9/00 4:34:17 pm) Reply Re: Specific programs Re: U Conn (but second hand info) One of the guys at my med school matched there and he thinks it's great b/c you get a lot of operative expereince including trauma plus good sports med and it's non-malignant. He thought it was better than Yale by far in terms of training. NE boy Unregistered User (7/22/00 5:32:23 pm) Reply AOA I think Yale's short-coming has been the fact it was not a trauma center. It now is and are getting a ortho trauma chief. It may not be the best program but UConn is not in the same league. Brown and Yale are comparable. zach0 Unregistered User (8/30/00 9:17:44 pm) Reply Yale, huh???? I had recently heard that many of Yale's bigger name Orthopods resigned because Yale/New Haven announced an across the board 10% pay cut in the department.........I imagine this will significantly affect the program. Anyone know anything about this????? How bout you NE boy? You seem to be pretty keen on Yale. ColoradoMSI Registered User Posts: 1 (2/18/01 1:41:22 pm) Reply Re: AOA i am an ms-I, who didn't honor any courses in the first quarter. all hope lost for ortho?? i've heard that aoa is alreay out of the questions, true? thanks for any advice. orthosurg1 Registered User Posts: 4 (2/18/01 6:15:10 pm) Reply AOA STATUS Once again, we near the end of one ortho residency session, and the questions from the future ortho residency applicants now begins. I am personally nearing the end of the residency selection process, so I guess I have a little knowledge on what I found. I think that your hopes are not all lost, but I don't know how AOA works at Colorado. I would suggest that you pick up the pace a little. I also know that while AOA status helped my application and allowed me to obtain some interviews that I would not have got otherwise, it was not everything. I would suggest, like all of my predecessors have before me, that you get some research under your belt, work hard to obtain good grades, study hard for step I, and get to know the attendings at your school. I personally know that the Colorado Ortho program has some attendings that would be glad to get you started. OH yeah, one more think, relax a little, OK. pikeortho Registered User Posts: 2 (2/18/01 8:56:20 pm) Reply aoa Just because you didn't honor any of your first semester classes doesn't mean you won't get AOA, just try to pick it up a little, you still have lots of classes to go. I have just finished interviewing for ortho and I do think that being AOA got me some of my interviews and the topic did usually come up during the interviews. However, being AOA is definitely not the most important thing, a strong step I score is much more important and doing research is almost just as important. So don't panic, relax and do the best you can, start on some research early and do good on Step I and you will get into ortho. Good Luck. OneRunner Registered User Posts: 9 (2/19/01 11:39:37 am) Reply AOA I would agree with the above. Personally, I did not make honors in any class for the entire first semester, but really picked it up and made AOA by doing well later, especially in the third year. This being said, I know others who truly deserved AOA, but did not get it and it was barely noticeable on their applications. I believe the things that stood out most on my application (and the things that residencies look for) were board scores, 3rd year grades and extracurricular activities. if you have the time, definitely get involved doing a couple of different things. Ortho is not a specialty that is looking for one-dimensional, grades-at-any-cost personalities. Residency programs want variety and they can command it from those who they will accept. Do not fret about a slow start, afterall the tortoise beat the hare. Techno Registered User Posts: 7 (2/22/01 6:49:42 am) Reply Yale From what I remember, there was a 10% pay cut in the department which caused a lot of faculty to leave. If my notes are right, one hand surgeon, one spine surgeon, and two sports surgeons left last year. The residents seemed very friendly, however, and the faculty appeared very warm and approachable. Resident camaraderie is a big bonus here. This looks like a great program, despite the fact that it's in its rebuilding phase. Research still appears to be strong here, and they apparently have good operative experience (i.e. plenty of cases to do). I did not interview at UConn or Brown, but I hear both are great programs. UConn has a heavy operative case-load, with its residents doing a lot of cases as first assistant as early as their second year.