Author Comment Chaney3 Registered User Posts: 1 (6/26/01 8:34:49 pm) Reply Letters I'm new to this forum and I must say it is awesome...what a great source of information! Thanks to all who contribute. I had a question about letters of rec. I was wondering how well you guys know your letter writers. I know everyone says "ask surgeons who know you well". Well, my problem is that no surgeon knows me that well. I know a couple of orthopods...I've worked with them on and off over the last couple of years...with research and also scrubbed in with them...but I cannot really say that they know me all that well. My first 2 years I was busy as heck studying trying to get good grades...and 3rd year was so hectic I had virtually no time to get to know any orthopods. And I have zero orthopods in the family tree. I'm wondering if anyone else is in this position. I realize it's preferable that you be best buddies with your letter writers...but in many cases this is not possible. One of the surgeons is a big name, but all I've done is shadow him for 3 days in the clinic and scrubbed in with him twice, did research at his institution but not with him -- should I just give him a copy of my CV and hope for the best? He's very well-published and famous and will write me a letter if I ask him, but I don't know how "personal" the letter will be. Thanks in advance for any advice. bonehead Registered User Posts: 4 (6/27/01 7:53:19 am) Reply letters what about letters from general surgeons? useful or useless? DIGbones Registered User Posts: 3 (6/27/01 1:01:05 pm) Reply Re: letters Chaney, Dude, there are plenty of ppl in the same boat including myself. I did an ortho rotation, didnt really work with the chair but asked him write a letter because he is a big name and he write an awesome letter, basically what I am saying is that if you feel that he will take enough time to write a letter, then def take you cv and meet with him. See what he says, test the waters. I am sure personalized letters are better but I think getting a decent letter from a big name goes a long way too. hope it works out man. NY MS3 orthohopeful Registered User Posts: 8 (6/27/01 5:46:06 pm) Reply letters I'm in a similar (or somewhat worse) position. I don't know any orthopods well enough to ask for letters yet (start my first rotation next week), and I didn't get nearly enough contact with the general surgery attendings to get a great letter out of them. What I have heard on this subject may help you though. When you do your ortho rotations most of your time is spent with the residents. You see the top dogs in the OR sometimes, and maybe they pimp you a little, but nothing too special. I have heard two things that I find encouraging though. One is that if you work your ass off while on the ortho services, the residents take notice and will tell the right people (they were in the same boat). Secondly you just have to ask for the letter in the right way to be sure you get a good letter. You have to be assertive and ask "would you feel comfortable recommending me to other programs" instead of "can you write me a letter?". If you just ask if they can write a letter, usually they will say yes, but you have no clue what kind of letter you're getting until its too late. If you sort of put them on the spot by trying to get some indication as to whether or not they feel comfortable giving you the praise you so desperately want, then usually they will clue you in on what they feel. I have no personal experience with doing this, but it is the approach that was recommended to me by my forbears in this endeavor, and it worked well for them. Hope that helps and I welcome comment/criticism on this outlook. Chaney3 Registered User Posts: 2 (6/27/01 8:38:25 pm) Reply Re: letters I guess I'm not the only one with this problem. It seems strange to me that they place so much emphasis on letters. During med school, you really don't have any exposure to orthopods...just the beginning of your 4th year...Heck, they don't even teach you any orthopedics in med school! I can understand letters from internal medicine or peds or ob/gyn, etc...all the required clerkships...but it seems unfair how they expect you to kick a%! in school AND become chummy with orthopedic surgeons. There's just not enough time!!! bonehead, letters from general surgeons can help, but obviously not as much ortho letters. Someone told me that if you can get a GREAT letter from a general surgeon, it would help. But if the letter is going to be just a run-of-the-mill letter...than I think it's best to get one from an orthopod who doesn't know you that well rather than a general surgeon who doesn't know you that well ! I guess the point is this: if you KNOW a gen surgeon will write you an AWESOME letter, go for it. But I wouldn't take my chances if I wasn't sure. Just my thoughts. Orthohopeful, I think that's a much better approach...Another piece of advice I got a little while ago: ask your potential letter writer to look over your personal statement...see what he thinks... in reality you could care less but it's just another way for him to get to know you AND it's a great way to get across to him things that you want him to know about you. Any other thoughts/suggestions?? bonepain Registered User Posts: 23 (6/27/01 9:32:26 pm) Reply letters The best thing to do is research. Also, I did a preclinical preceptorship and then did the same rotation for my 3rd year surgery rotation... thus the attendings saw me again. I also kept in touch with the doctors and did research with one of them. Also, I think the chairman of your ortho dept. should always write a letter for you, regardless of how well he/she knows you. If you visit with him/her a couple times, discuss your interest in ortho, and give him/her a CV/transcript... that should be enough. I also considered doing an away at a small program with a superstar chairman (ie. Lenox hill), and requesting the chairman's service. This way, I could work somewhat more closely with a well known chairman and hopefully get a great (and powerful) letter out of it. I ended up scraping those plans because my chairman told me I was qualified enough to get into the programs in my state, which is as far as my ambition reaches. However, I do think it is a good idea... esp. if you think your numbers are borderline. You have to rememeber that the bottom line is still #s when is comes to get a large number of interviews. Good luck Two Fingers Registered User Posts: 2 (6/27/01 11:50:45 pm) Reply Letters If you are concerned who to get your letters from, you need to understand what information the programs get from those letters. They already know your grades and board scores, they use the letters to learn about your personality: how you work with others, your willingness to work hard, your attitude after you've been working your ass off for over 24 hours straight, etc. They want something to tell them that you are a hardworking, trustworthy doctor who they will be willing to work with for the next 5 years. So, a letter from *anyone* who knows you very well and how you perform under difficult circumstances will be valuable to a program. Obviously, if that letter comes from an orthopod, that's best, but a letter from a general surgeon is fine. I'd recommend a strong letter from a general surgeon who knows you very well over a non-specific letter from even a superstar orthopod who doesn't know you personally. You should, however, have a letter from an orthopod. It *must* be from someone you knows you very well. If that is only a chief resident, then so be it. Lastly, when you ask someone to write you a letter, be sure to ask if they feel that they can right you a good, detailed letter. Since most will write a letter if you ask, you don't want to get stuck with a letter that basically says that the person doesn't know a whole lot about you.