DO programs

[natedog]

Thanks GOD for this thread! You have no idea how frustrating it is to be completely lost and having NO info on DO ortho programs. Here's my contribution.

I'm screwed when it comes to elective rotations. My school requires us to go on "rural rotations" for two months of our 4th year. Mine are in Sept and Oct...prime audition rotation months. So I only have july, august, november and december to rotate. Lots of programs interview in october and november..very few in december so I'm hogtied. I did well on the comlex scoring >92 percentile, but as we all know programs want you to rotate. A lot of schools are starting to link their internship year, so that screws me further. Ortho is the one specialty I really enjoy. It's one of the few specialties that you actually fix people and see the results of your work. They come in broke and leave fixed, which is something I really appreciate about it. It's not that I would be miserable doing something else, but I'm the one who has to get up and go to work, I might as well do something I'm passionate about. Why should I miss out on this because my school has a fetish for rural medicine?

[RickJames]

check out the MCG program in Augusta GA, although a traditional allopathic residency they consider DO candidates very highly and have several very good DO residents

[Doc25]

Hi. This is my first time writing and the first time I hear about DO ortho programs. I'm a foreign MD and I've been strugling for 3 years to get into an ortho program. I heard about DO programs....
-Can anybody tell me more about them?
-How can I look them up?
-What's the selection process?
-Will they take a foreign MD, or is it still very difficult?

Any info is useful and appreciated. Please reply, PM or email me.
Thanks.
alex_b25@hotmail.com

[cbest]

It's been a while for this thread... any new info?

[crimeboss]

If anyone has any questions about the DO programs in MI then I can definately help. I am a DO ortho resident with friends in all programs. I have also rotated at some of them. send me a private message if you are interested.

[intj]

St. Vincent Mercy in Toledo: Have never visited, but I have two former classmates that are current residents at this program. (those classmates are top 10% on boards) They have only good things to say about this program in terms of didactics, OR time and etc... I truly respect the opinions of my friends, this may be one of the best DO programs. I have heard from multiple sources that the PD Dr. Jaeblon is awesome. I would check this place out. But you do need to be in top 75% on boards to get an interview.




I hope this helps.

Bartholin

I have heard other things about this program. St. Vs sees little to no ortho trauma (more gun/knife) and is light on elective cases compared to the other two major hospitals in town. The Toledo MD program takes half the call there for a local away rotation. Is the top 75% on boards really a cut off?!
intj

[DOtheD.O.]

Has anyone heard anything about the riverside county program in cali? I've heard that they get a ton of trauma and are over-worked. I've also heard a rumor that they have screwed people over in the match: "You will be ranked number 1" and then they don't match.

Any tips are appreciated.

[Bonebreaker1]

I am a 3rd yeard DO student who recently discovered that I belong in Ortho. Our school only allows 3 rotations in one specialty. Since most programs will only consider you if you rotate, that really only gives me 3 places to have a legit shot. I am top 15% of class, 1/2 clinical honors, great reviews, great team player, high level athlete, president of some clubs at my school. The catch: I got a 529 on the comlex. Do I have a shot?

I've already heard to avoid Toledo, Grandview, Columbus, and des peres

Can you guys list the best programs you can think of that a: wont eliminate me based on comlex, B: have actually taken a student in this range before. I have considered Harrisburg, riverside, botsford, south point, and Genesys. Can anyone tell me if I should avoid any of these for any reason (comlex, or program favoring certain schools, quality, ect..)? Also, if you can suggest other programs you know of that would certainly be a better choice? Thank you, Confused ortho wannabe

[GilmoreHappy]

bump, this is a very useful thread, it is difficult to find any discussion about do programs. any more info would be appreciated from any former/current resident or even med students. has anyone heard anything about the pcom consortium? or memorial in york?

[DOtheD.O.]

I have heard other things about this program. St. Vs sees little to no ortho trauma (more gun/knife) and is light on elective cases compared to the other two major hospitals in town. The Toledo MD program takes half the call there for a local away rotation. Is the top 75% on boards really a cut off?!

No, 75th percentile isn't there cut-off. its actually 85%. I emailed the program and here is there response:

In order to be considered for the orthopedic program, it is important for
you to know that you must do a rotation here and have board scores of 85% or above. If you would like to apply to the orthopedic program, you may apply on ERAS beginning July 15, 2008. The application will be available to you on ERAS. If I can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Diane Golba
Academic Program Coordinator
St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center
Osteopathic Medical Education
2213 Cherry St.
Toledo, OH 43608
419-251-6596 phone
419-251-6849 fax

[bdress1227]

Im going to Botsford next year as an Intern... Solid program. My overall favorite place was Harrisburg. I rotated at Harrisburg, St Louis, OKC, and Mt Clemens. I didnt rotate at Botsford, and still got the offer. I got interview offers from each place I rotated as well as Columbus and Botsford.

Dont even waste your time in StL unless you are 600+ on Comlex. I was 598, and im pretty sure i was the lowest score at the interview.

Harrisburg was my favorite because the residents never leave the OR. The rotation sucks as a student cuz you are ALL there everyday at 5am, and never leave till 9pm everyday. You ALL work every weekend too.

Mt Clemens was ok. When i was there, there was too much stuff floating around with program dir change and a new surgery center that residents wouldnt work in as well as getting spots cut.

OKC I was absolutely miserable at. I am from Okla, so this was kinda my home program and I hated it. I was there for 6 weeks and saw a very few things that I liked. The residents arent good friends like I saw at most places, they dont hang out after hours.

Being from Okla, I spent lots of time at Tulsas program too. They didnt take interns this year so I didnt waste a rotation, but still hung out. The residents are awesome. They dont operate very much while at OSU though. They recently had a resident leave the program to go elsewhere where she could operate more.

From coming fresh off the rotations/interview/match, I can tell you about most of the programs from what I gathered from my own, as well as other students thoughts from their rotations.

[Mickens013]

Here is a post I made in a similar forum (I'm sure most of you know where) concering my thoughts on the various ortho programs. Obviously this is strictly in my own opinion but I know how tough DO ortho info is to come by these days.

Grandview-always been considered a "top notch" program. Did not rotate here but have a classmate whom will be there next year and he gunned hard. Plenty of specialties including strong hand. Definitely have to gun here to be noticed. Like board scores, and from what I hear, base students are not given a preference...they are on even playing field with everyone. Once again, I cannot emphasize the gunning here. Unsure about didactics.
Doctor's Hospital-Columbus- Where I will be next year. So of course, I'm gonna tout the program. The big things here for me 1) They have ALL specialties..definitely a rarity in the osteo world 2) you can do all of your rotations/specialties in columbus 3) you do quite a bit at a level 1 trauma center, which is big to me and another rarity in the DO world 4) strong didactics. They do like board scores. Another place you HAVE to gun. We had 8-9 guys on service when I was there so do something to standout. Get FACE TIME. This was my #1 and am pretty stoked. I cannot say enough about how cool the residents are here. They will pimp but not to make you look like a jack***; just to teach you something and to find out what you know. They are easy to get along with and work hard/play hard.
Ingham-Don't know much but had a buddy rotate through up there and said it was all ortho hospitals and pretty hardcore. Do rotation(s) at Northwestern which can't be bad.
Des Peres- two words: board scores. You don't have 'em, don't bother.
PCOM-Great hospitals. They tend to favor PCOM basers but on the upside, I think they take 6/year which helps. I have heard that PCOM kids based there whom want ortho there start gunning from day 1..this may put you at a disadvantage (I.E. those of you not from PCOM).
Genesys-Have a ton of specialties, operate more than any hospital I went through. Beautiful hospital and great residents. Didactics are a little weak and somewhat disorganized. Gunning isn't so big here as others. Unsure of emphasis on boards.
South Pointe- Great residents, great attendings and good didactics. Lacking in hand and spine with limited number of cases in other areas. Great trauma and general ortho. Not so big on gunning but that may change with next years chief's. Not too heavy on boards. One of my favorite programs. Have another buddy who will be here next year. The director here is a standout-type of guy who fights to the death for his residents. Word is they may be attaining another hospital heavy on trauma.
Massillon-Great community hospital with great attendings. Good didactics with plenty of OR time in a variety of cases. Have to gun here...heavy on boards. Residents will pimp you pretty hard. Another buddy of mine will be here next year.
Toledo-Have to gun hard here. Have two buddies who will be here next year. I have heard it's a level one trauma center but they clash with MD ortho residents for trauma..but not totally sure. HEAVY on boards...i.e. the director will straight up ask you what you got..as will the secretary when you try to schedule a rotation!

These are the programs I know the most about..I hope this helps with any questions anyone might have. I will comment a little on what I believe is important in ANY ortho rotation
1) Work hard and enjoy what your doing
2) Crush boards, as this will open MANY doors to those programs which you didn't rotate at. I rotated through 4 programs and ended up with..I think 12 interviews. If you score 600+, your in pretty good shape
3) Get face time with the director and, if possible, ALL attendings
4) Know your ortho COLD. "The guy next to you gunning knows more than me"- if you keep telling yourself that, your drive to keep reading every night will stay up.
5) dominate first two years of med school...get high class rank
6) get INFLUENTIAL letters. Letters from the right people can get you a long way.
7)Don't lose track of why your doing this.....if you question yourself, this may not be your specialty.
Probably one of the most important- know your role. Don't be answering questions if a resident doesn't know it unless directly asked. Don't be annoying. There is such a fine-line between being there and busting your but, staying late, taking call and being there too much. If the residents have a say and they all agree you were a little too much, that can hurt you I can't say how you do this---on this one, to each his own.
9) schedule rotations as close as possible to interview time. I know this isn't possible for all of them but you may want to do your top choice near interview time so your face is fresh.

In all, I rotated at 4 different programs, ended up getting 12 interviews, went on 3 and got offered 2 spots, including my top choice (Doctor's/Columbus). Remember-the best program is what fits you and most importantly, the one you get into.
All right...I'm done. Sorry to write a book but like I said, you guys out there wanting ortho deserve a heads up and I will do anything to help you guys/girls out. Hope this helps and good luck...maybe I'll see a couple of ya comin through.

Cheers-
Nate

[jspang05]

Can anyone that as applied to Ortho residencies tell me what kind of emphasis programs have but on Step 2 of boards. It seems like all I read about is step 1 so I was just curious.

[Mickens013]

Can anyone that as applied to Ortho residencies tell me what kind of emphasis programs have but on Step 2 of boards. It seems like all I read about is step 1 so I was just curious.

This is a pretty obscure topic, particularily in the DO world. What I can tell you is that all require you pass it but like to see you do the same/better than you did on step one. I did the exact same to within 3 points on step 2 and only got asked about it on one interview, which the response was simply "good to see consistency."
I have yet to hear of any people, from what I have seen, do average on step I, rock step 2 and end up with an ortho spot. I am SURE it has happened but I am pretty confident in stating that step 1 has the most pull.

[jspang05]

Thanks for the reply. That is kind of what I have been hearing from people that are applying to other residencies, but I haven't talked to anyone that applied for an Ortho spot.