Should I go for it?

[Orthoconvert]

To anyone who would be willing to offer some advice...

I am an MS3 just finishing up his surgery rotation who developed a sudden and overwhelming interest in ortho. It is a long story, but i managed to stumble my way into a few ortho cases during my pediatrics surgery service, and I absolutely fell in love.

Prior to this very brief exposure to ortho, I had no idea I would ever be interested in this field; I had my mind made up that I would go into internal medicine. My third year is scheduled such that it would be impossible for me to take an ortho elective until my 4th year.

My qualifications are, briefly, as follows: approximately 65-70% honors first 2 years, honored only my medicine rotation so far in 3rd year (currently studying hard for the surgery shelf, but not sure if i would honor the rotation), step 1 is 239, and my school is unranked. I have no extracurricular activies and no research experience.

I know this is a very competitive field, but I almost feel I've fallen head over heels for it. My question is, is it realistic for me to begin pursuing ortho at this point? If so what are the steps I should take? Should I start to look for some research opportunities, even though my odds of doing some MEANINGFUL research this late is not that high? What about away rotations? Finally, how common is it for an applicant with more or less average stats in terms of numbers (such as myself) to not match at all? I am willing to go anywhere for ortho, but the thought of failing to match does frighten me a bit.

I would appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks in advance.

-guy who fell for ortho

[bobbob]

To answer your question about whether you should go for it, I would say that it is absolutely worth a shot. You have a chance to pursue what sounds to be your true interest in career path, so there is not reason not to. You have a solid Step 1 score and a good academic record, so you are on par with most applicants. I would suggest trying to find an orthopaedic attending who is doing some research and try to get in on it. I wouldn't do it with the intent of publishing anything by the time you interview, but more to get to know the attending so that he/she can write you a very personal and solid letter of recommendation. Beyond that, take an ortho elective first thing your 4th year and set up some away rotations for the late summer and early fall. I'm not sure with a Step 1 of 239 if it would be worth taking Step 2 early, but if you are sure you can hit a home run, then go for it. Your numbers will probably get you around 15 interviews, although you will learn that there is no real rhyme or reason to who gets interviews where.

The bottom line is that you have to go balls to the wall for the next 9 months. You are just a 1/2 step behind everyone else, but it is easy to make it up in that time. Work hard, show up early, be interested, read for your cases and do more than the residents/attendings expect of you and you will likely do just fine.

Good luck!

[maxpower]

I would agree with bobbob on it being worthwhile for you to go after it if it's something that you think you really want to do. There's no reason to live with a life of regret over something you didn't do.

What I disagree with, however, and encourage all med students wanting to apply into ortho to remember, is that the numbers you hear quoted, especially on this website, are exaggerated in most cases. I had numbers nearly identical to yours, except I had honors in Surgery and Medicine as well as a couple of other clerkships, and had High Pass/Letters/"Your Med School Equivalent for Better than Pass but not as Good as Honors" here in all but 1 of the rest of my 3rd year rotations. I was also a student at a top 30 med school and in the top 10% of my class, had a couple of research projects/papers, and great LORs (I know because they were given to me at one of my interviews) and I only got 10 interviews, and that's with applying to 50+ programs.

There's no rhyme or reason to who gets interviews and who doesn't, and the more I talk about it with other applicants, the more I'm convinced that half the applications are thrown out before being reviewed and the others are placed on a dartboard. I got caught up in the numbers game because I believed a lot of what other posters had said on this site and feel like I got burned. Good luck in whatever you decide, but my advice would be to apply to a whole lot more programs than people tell you to. It's easier to turn down interviews because you have conflicts than to wish you'd applied to more places. . . . . .

[bobbob]

Just to clarify, I agree that this application process is a crap shoot. I quoted the 15 interviews as a number I have heard tossed around for people with similar numbers to yours. Some with better numbers will get fewer and some with lower numbers will get more. It makes no sense. You should apply to many programs and see what comes your way. Your numbers will get your application through the first round of cut-offs, but the rest of it is what will get you your interviews. In my opinion, I would say that the importance of various parts of the application in descending order of importance are letters of recommendation, having rotated at the program, academic record, research, and personal statement. Work on solidifying your LORs and work hard on your rotations and that can overcome any weaknesses that the rest of an application may have.

[Orthoconvert]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I fully understand that there is no magic formula to this process, and that is part of the reason I am so hesitant about this. As I've said earlier, I am not picky at all about where I go, but the thought of not matching at all is unbearable.

Up to this point I have been planning a career in internal medicine; my only concerns where whether I will be able to get into a good residency near home or one elsewhere! It is quite a big change going from worrying about WHERE I'm going to match to WHETHER I'm going to match at all...

I like internal medicine. I think I definitely like it enough to be happy with a career in it. But now I've kinda spotted this other thing called orthopedic surgery, and I almost feel like a little kid who spotted this really fancy toy while window shopping at the mall. Unlike a lot of my classmates going into ortho, I have not wanted to do this since the day I was born, and I certainly have no logical reason for wanting it so bad. I haven't even done an elective in ortho!! All i have done so far is sneak into a few ortho surgeries here and there and develop an almost irrational love for it.

I feel if I were to have any chance at matching at all, I would have to go all out for it starting now. I have to more or less give up the safer route of internal medicine and follow nothing but a very, very strong gut instinct for ortho, all of which could culminate in me not matching ANYWHERE. Cest la vie, I guess.

Oh well, whining never got me anywhere. Time to get back to studying for my surgery shelf...

[wareagle]

I feel your pain, my situation sounds almost identical to yours. I have people in my class that have wanted to do ortho since they were born and I am one that became interested between 2nd and 3rd year. The advice I have received that has helped me has been this: Go for it because if you don't, you will always wonder what might have been. It is definitely scary thinking about the possibility of not matching, but as the old saying goes, it's better to try and fail than to never try at all. Good luck with everything. Any advice for the surgery shelf? I too am currently studying for it...

[Ortho1982]

You have more than enough time. Don't worry. The single most important part of your application will be scheduling one to three away rotations and making a good impression on these rotations. You should schedule these at programs you have a realistic chance of matching at. You may want to do one at a community based program which will weigh research experience less heavily.

Your step 1 score is solid. Although lack of research experience and leadership roles in extracurricular activities will give you less of a chance at matching into a large, competitive, academic program.

If you have a strong interest in academics (which you may if you enjoy pediatric orthopaedics), it wouldn't hurt to spend next year doing research and applying the following year. This will allow you to network with faculty, publish some meaningful research, and then schedule away rotations wherever you wish.

[orthochic08]

Go for it!! Follow your heart or u will forever regret it.
Rock your aways.
Let your PS tell your story.
Apply and interview heavily (throw budget out the window)
and have a just in case back up plan.

Dont settle.

[JohnnyDrama]

Just another point - you can always apply to both ortho and IM at the same time, if you really think you would be happy in both fields. Just rank all your ortho programs higher than your IM ones, and then if you don't end up in ortho, at least you can be content with knowing you gave it your best shot and it just wasn't meant to be, but you'll end up in IM as a backup.

I know some 4th years at my school who are doing something similar. They told me that if you do try this approach, it would be smart to only apply to one type of program at a given hospital, to avoid any awkwardness. For example....if you want to go to University of Michigan, don't apply there for both ortho and IM. Choose one or the other, just in case the PDs from both departments happen to be buddy-buddy and figure the situation out.

[Orthoconvert]

Update on my situation, in case anyone cares:

I spoke with one of the orthopaedic attendings at my school the other day, and he actually asked me if I've ever been to orthogate. Of course, I stupidly answered "no", totally oblivious to the fact that these forums I've been posting on ARE the orthogate forums.

Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about away rotations now. People have been telling me to #1 pick according to geography and #2 pick places you think you might have a shot at. For me, the only place I have a strong preference for is california, since that is where home is for me. I have heard, however, that california programs are generally difficult to get into. I am especially interested in USC, since it is literally 15 minutes away from my parent's house, and it does have 10 spots / year.

I guess my question is, should I do one away rotation in california, even though those programs are notoriously difficult to get into, or should I just forget about cali and go for programs I would have a better shot at? Also, how would I even know what programs I may have a chance it?

I'm just at a lost as to where I should apply, and I know I should apply soon. Any advice with regards to what kinds of places I might be competitive at / where I can find more information about the various programs / how competitive USC actually is would be much much appreciated. Thanks!


P.S.

To wareagle,

I just took my surgery shelf, and I felt what helped me the most was going through case files 2-3 times and using a series of questions called the pestana review a few days before the test. My classmates have been saying pretest was also helpful, but I personally felt the questions in there were sometimes too detailed. Good luck on your shelf, if you haven't taken it already...