Advise for Ross University (Caribbean) MS3 desiring ortho

[MilesRoss]

I realize that as a future IMG, I am already behind the eight ball in attaining an orthopedic residency. I have a few issues on which any advise would be most appreciated.

1.) I scored a 251 on my STEP 1 and have maintained a 4.0/4.0 throughout both basic and clinical sciences. My school does not designate honors for specific classes, however I have been on the Dean's List Honor Roll for semesters 1-7 thus far. What are my chances?

2.) As I attended a Caribbean medical school, there is no ortho program (and thus no ortho program chairman) from whom I can get an LOR. I had met with the previous Dean on multiple occasions, but this position changed hands after I had left the island and had begun my rotations here in the states. As it is, I have not yet met, nor do I see an opportunity to meet, the new Dean. Other than my surgery core and any ortho electives, who else should I obtain LOR's from to boost my chances?

3.) I am currently in my general surgery rotation, but have had the opportunity to scrub in on nearly an equal number of ortho cases. The scrub techs and circulating nurses all tell me the surgeons love having me in the OR, not only because I am eager and very interested in orthopedics, but also because I carry on good conversation with them on topics outside of medicine. Should I ask any of them to write LOR's? Should they designate that they are writing an ortho letter for a student that was in his core general surgery rotation?

4.) Because of the timing with when I started basic sciences, and how rotations have panned out thus far, I will be finishing my electives approximately 2 months too late to match 2013. I am at a loss as to what I should do for nearly 10 months. Where should I try to do research? Should I try to get a position teaching in the anatomy lab at a school where I may want to get a residency? Should I attempt to do both of the aforementioned in the same location?

Thank you in advance for any and all advise you may be able to afford...

[Cannulated]

1) Although your step 1 score is pretty good, I think that you are very unlikely to match into ortho. If it is your dream, then it's worth a shot though.

2) I am not sure, but in your case I'd get the surgery chairman (if there is one) and just rely on your aways.

3) Yes, why not ask them for letters? I wouldn't have them state that it was during your general surgery rotation though as it wouldn't really add anything.

4) You should do research during that time and get close to the ortho department there. As far as where, it is hard to answer, but I would go to a program that will actually look at you seriously for the match. You don't want to work for 10 months and then have the PD there tell you not to even bother applying when it's all said and done because of your IMG status.

[GAdoc1982]

See my responses beneath each of your questions:

I realize that as a future IMG, I am already behind the eight ball in attaining an orthopedic residency. I have a few issues on which any advise would be most appreciated.

1.) I scored a 251 on my STEP 1 and have maintained a 4.0/4.0 throughout both basic and clinical sciences. My school does not designate honors for specific classes, however I have been on the Dean's List Honor Roll for semesters 1-7 thus far. What are my chances?

251 is an excellent score and if you were coming from the U.S. I don't think you'd have much trouble getting into ortho. However, coming from the Caribbean, it's still an uphill battle regardless of your score.

Think about it this way, when you browse a program's website and look at resident profiles what information is listed? It's usually the resident's med school - never their Step 1 score. Where you went to med school tells other potential applicants something about the type of person that program recruits.

Even though I went to a U.S. med school, I faced a similar bias (though certainly to a lesser degree). There were programs that didn't even offer me interviews because they had never heard of my med school and we didn't have a home ortho department. I knew my stats were as good (or better) than many of their residents, but at the end of the day, my med school wasn't enough of a credit to their program.

2.) As I attended a Caribbean medical school, there is no ortho program (and thus no ortho program chairman) from whom I can get an LOR. I had met with the previous Dean on multiple occasions, but this position changed hands after I had left the island and had begun my rotations here in the states. As it is, I have not yet met, nor do I see an opportunity to meet, the new Dean. Other than my surgery core and any ortho electives, who else should I obtain LOR's from to boost my chances?

You need to do 3-4 month long sub-Is as a 4th year and KILL them. You need to work harder than anyone else there without being obnoxious. There are entire threads dedicated to doing well on aways, so I won't go into all that here, but this is your BEST hope of matching ortho. Remember, you can only submit so many letters on ERAS so the QUANTITY of letters is not nearly as important as the QUALITY. But, you do need a mix of academic letters with a good "name association" as well as people who can really speak to your work ethic and aptitude for ortho.


3.) I am currently in my general surgery rotation, but have had the opportunity to scrub in on nearly an equal number of ortho cases. The scrub techs and circulating nurses all tell me the surgeons love having me in the OR, not only because I am eager and very interested in orthopedics, but also because I carry on good conversation with them on topics outside of medicine. Should I ask any of them to write LOR's? Should they designate that they are writing an ortho letter for a student that was in his core general surgery rotation?

If they can write you an excellent personalized letter that speaks to your work ethic, go for it. Who cares if it's on your gen surg rotation?

4.) Because of the timing with when I started basic sciences, and how rotations have panned out thus far, I will be finishing my electives approximately 2 months too late to match 2013. I am at a loss as to what I should do for nearly 10 months. Where should I try to do research? Should I try to get a position teaching in the anatomy lab at a school where I may want to get a residency? Should I attempt to do both of the aforementioned in the same location?

What you do in those ten months makes all the difference. You need 3-4 month long away rotations and hopefully some quality research. Research is another way you are a "credit" to your program and it can potentially overcome your med school.

Good luck buddy - not trying to come across as rude or condescending, just wanting to be honest to help you out.

Thank you in advance for any and all advise you may be able to afford...

[MilesRoss]

See my responses beneath each of your questions:

I realize that as a future IMG, I am already behind the eight ball in attaining an orthopedic residency. I have a few issues on which any advise would be most appreciated.

1.) I scored a 251 on my STEP 1 and have maintained a 4.0/4.0 throughout both basic and clinical sciences. My school does not designate honors for specific classes, however I have been on the Dean's List Honor Roll for semesters 1-7 thus far. What are my chances?

251 is an excellent score and if you were coming from the U.S. I don't think you'd have much trouble getting into ortho. However, coming from the Caribbean, it's still an uphill battle regardless of your score.

Think about it this way, when you browse a program's website and look at resident profiles what information is listed? It's usually the resident's med school - never their Step 1 score. Where you went to med school tells other potential applicants something about the type of person that program recruits.

Even though I went to a U.S. med school, I faced a similar bias (though certainly to a lesser degree). There were programs that didn't even offer me interviews because they had never heard of my med school and we didn't have a home ortho department. I knew my stats were as good (or better) than many of their residents, but at the end of the day, my med school wasn't enough of a credit to their program.

2.) As I attended a Caribbean medical school, there is no ortho program (and thus no ortho program chairman) from whom I can get an LOR. I had met with the previous Dean on multiple occasions, but this position changed hands after I had left the island and had begun my rotations here in the states. As it is, I have not yet met, nor do I see an opportunity to meet, the new Dean. Other than my surgery core and any ortho electives, who else should I obtain LOR's from to boost my chances?

You need to do 3-4 month long sub-Is as a 4th year and KILL them. You need to work harder than anyone else there without being obnoxious. There are entire threads dedicated to doing well on aways, so I won't go into all that here, but this is your BEST hope of matching ortho. Remember, you can only submit so many letters on ERAS so the QUANTITY of letters is not nearly as important as the QUALITY. But, you do need a mix of academic letters with a good "name association" as well as people who can really speak to your work ethic and aptitude for ortho.


3.) I am currently in my general surgery rotation, but have had the opportunity to scrub in on nearly an equal number of ortho cases. The scrub techs and circulating nurses all tell me the surgeons love having me in the OR, not only because I am eager and very interested in orthopedics, but also because I carry on good conversation with them on topics outside of medicine. Should I ask any of them to write LOR's? Should they designate that they are writing an ortho letter for a student that was in his core general surgery rotation?

If they can write you an excellent personalized letter that speaks to your work ethic, go for it. Who cares if it's on your gen surg rotation?

4.) Because of the timing with when I started basic sciences, and how rotations have panned out thus far, I will be finishing my electives approximately 2 months too late to match 2013. I am at a loss as to what I should do for nearly 10 months. Where should I try to do research? Should I try to get a position teaching in the anatomy lab at a school where I may want to get a residency? Should I attempt to do both of the aforementioned in the same location?

What you do in those ten months makes all the difference. You need 3-4 month long away rotations and hopefully some quality research. Research is another way you are a "credit" to your program and it can potentially overcome your med school.

Good luck buddy - not trying to come across as rude or condescending, just wanting to be honest to help you out.

Thank you in advance for any and all advise you may be able to afford...

Thanks for the help. No offense taken in the least. Would much rather have an honest reply. It's basically what I was expecting to find out, still disheartening, however strengthens my resolve to make ortho happen. You wouldn't happen to know of any programs that are IMG friendly, or a database in which I could find this information?

[GAdoc1982]

See my responses beneath each of your questions:

I realize that as a future IMG, I am already behind the eight ball in attaining an orthopedic residency. I have a few issues on which any advise would be most appreciated.

1.) I scored a 251 on my STEP 1 and have maintained a 4.0/4.0 throughout both basic and clinical sciences. My school does not designate honors for specific classes, however I have been on the Dean's List Honor Roll for semesters 1-7 thus far. What are my chances?

251 is an excellent score and if you were coming from the U.S. I don't think you'd have much trouble getting into ortho. However, coming from the Caribbean, it's still an uphill battle regardless of your score.

Think about it this way, when you browse a program's website and look at resident profiles what information is listed? It's usually the resident's med school - never their Step 1 score. Where you went to med school tells other potential applicants something about the type of person that program recruits.

Even though I went to a U.S. med school, I faced a similar bias (though certainly to a lesser degree). There were programs that didn't even offer me interviews because they had never heard of my med school and we didn't have a home ortho department. I knew my stats were as good (or better) than many of their residents, but at the end of the day, my med school wasn't enough of a credit to their program.

2.) As I attended a Caribbean medical school, there is no ortho program (and thus no ortho program chairman) from whom I can get an LOR. I had met with the previous Dean on multiple occasions, but this position changed hands after I had left the island and had begun my rotations here in the states. As it is, I have not yet met, nor do I see an opportunity to meet, the new Dean. Other than my surgery core and any ortho electives, who else should I obtain LOR's from to boost my chances?

You need to do 3-4 month long sub-Is as a 4th year and KILL them. You need to work harder than anyone else there without being obnoxious. There are entire threads dedicated to doing well on aways, so I won't go into all that here, but this is your BEST hope of matching ortho. Remember, you can only submit so many letters on ERAS so the QUANTITY of letters is not nearly as important as the QUALITY. But, you do need a mix of academic letters with a good "name association" as well as people who can really speak to your work ethic and aptitude for ortho.


3.) I am currently in my general surgery rotation, but have had the opportunity to scrub in on nearly an equal number of ortho cases. The scrub techs and circulating nurses all tell me the surgeons love having me in the OR, not only because I am eager and very interested in orthopedics, but also because I carry on good conversation with them on topics outside of medicine. Should I ask any of them to write LOR's? Should they designate that they are writing an ortho letter for a student that was in his core general surgery rotation?

If they can write you an excellent personalized letter that speaks to your work ethic, go for it. Who cares if it's on your gen surg rotation?

4.) Because of the timing with when I started basic sciences, and how rotations have panned out thus far, I will be finishing my electives approximately 2 months too late to match 2013. I am at a loss as to what I should do for nearly 10 months. Where should I try to do research? Should I try to get a position teaching in the anatomy lab at a school where I may want to get a residency? Should I attempt to do both of the aforementioned in the same location?

What you do in those ten months makes all the difference. You need 3-4 month long away rotations and hopefully some quality research. Research is another way you are a "credit" to your program and it can potentially overcome your med school.

Good luck buddy - not trying to come across as rude or condescending, just wanting to be honest to help you out.

Thank you in advance for any and all advise you may be able to afford...

Thanks for the help. No offense taken in the least. Would much rather have an honest reply. It's basically what I was expecting to find out, still disheartening, however strengthens my resolve to make ortho happen. You wouldn't happen to know of any programs that are IMG friendly, or a database in which I could find this information?

It's going to be hard to come up with that information. Your best bet will be to browse as many programs as possible and see where their graduates come from. If you find any, call some of the residents there and ask what it would take to get your foot in the door. I can tell you from experience, most residents don't mind being contacted like that.